人们可以充分利用时间，达成交易，to take advantage of their time, not waste time, be able to make deals与朋友交谈等。and talk to friends and so on while they're driving.这是不是表明，用金钱来衡量一个人的生命Doesn't that suggest that it's a mistake to try to put是错误的？monetary figures on questions of human life?嗯，我认为，如果大多数人都想着Well, I think that if the great majority of people try to计算出一个最大的效益值，derive maximum utility out of a service,例如，使用手机所带来的便利like using cell phones and the convenience that cell phones provide,为了得到这些便利，作出一些牺牲是必要的that sacrifice is necessary for satisfaction to occur.你是一个十足的功利主义。You're an outright utilitarian.是。好吧。Yes. Okay.好的，最后一个问题，RaulAll right then, one last question, Raul. - Okay.我刚才问到Voytek一个问题，这个数字应该是多少And I put this to Voytek, what dollar figure should把生命的价值考虑进去，才足以决定要禁止使用手机？be put on human life to decide whether to ban the use of cell phones?嗯，我不想给出任意一个数字Well, I don't want to arbitrarily calculate a figure,我的意思是，现在，我认为 -I mean, right now. I think that -你一定要经过周密地考虑？You want to take it under advisement?是的，我要经过周密地考虑。Yeah, I'll take it under advisement.但如果粗略地计算，会是多少呢？如果是2,300人死亡。好。But what, roughly speaking, would it be? You got 2,300 deaths. - Okay.你要给每个生命赋予一个值，才能知道You got to assign a dollar value to know whether you want是否足以禁止开车时使用手机。 好的。to prevent those deaths by banning the use of cell phones in cars. - Okay.所以，你预感是多少？100万？So what would your hunch be? How much? A million?200万？ 200万是Voytek给的数字。 - 是啊。Two million? Two million was Voytek's figure. - Yeah.是不是差不多了？ - 也许是100万Is that about right? - Maybe a million.100万？ - 是啊。A million? - Yeah.很好。谢谢。 好吧。You know, that's good. Thank you. -Okay.这几天，出现了一些争议，So, these are some of the controversies that arise these days关于成本效益分析的争议，尤其是涉及到from cost-benefit analysis, especially those that involve placing a怎么衡量价值，最后加起来得到个数值dollar value on everything to be added up.那么，现在我想来谈谈那些的反对意见Well, now I want to turn to your objections,你不一定是反对成本效益分析to your objections not necessarily to cost-benefit analysis specifically,因为这只是功利主义在实际生活中的一个版本而已because that's just one version of the utilitarian logic in practice today,你可以，思考功利主义的整个理论but to the theory as a whole, to the idea that the right thing to do,政策和法律是建立在效用最大化的原则上the just basis for policy and law is to maximize utility.有多少人不同意功利主义，关于立法How many disagree with the utilitarian approach to law和公众利益的原则？and to the common good?有多少人同意？How many agree with it?同意的人更多。So more agree than disagree.因此，让我们听听那些批评的声音。So let's hear from the critics. Yes?我觉得它主要的问题在于，我觉得你不能因为My main issue with it is that I feel like you can't say少数人的利益和需求that just because someone's in the minority, what they want就比大多数的利益，价值要小and need is less valuable than someone who is in the majority.所以，我想，认为谋求最多人、最大化的效益So I guess I have an issue with the idea that the greatest good这个想法有问题for the greatest number is okay because there are still -那些占少数的人怎么办？what about people who are in the lesser number?这对他们不公平。Like, it's not fair to them.他们没有任何发言权。They didn't have any say in where they wanted to be.好的。这是一个有趣的批判。All right. That's an interesting objection.你担心的是那些占少数的人You're worried about the effect on the minority.是。Yes.你叫什么名字，顺便说一句？What's your name, by the way?Anna。Anna.谁能给Anna一个回应？Who has an answer to Anna's worry about the effect on the minority?你会对Anna怎么说？What do you say to Anna?嗯，她说，少数派较少得到重视。Um, she said that the minority is valued less.我不这样认为，就个人而言，I don't think that's the case because individually,少数人和大多数人一样。the minority's value is just the same as the individual of the majority.只是它们人数多一点而已。It's just that the numbers outweigh the minority.我的意思是在某一点，你必须作出决定And I mean, at a certain point, you have to make a decision对不起啊，那些占少数的人。and I'm sorry for the minority but sometimes,有些时候，这样是为了大多数人的利益。it's for the general, for the greater good.为了多数人的利益。Anna，你怎么说？For the greater good. Anna, what do you say?你叫什么名字？What's your name?杨达。Yang-Da.你怎么回应杨达？What do you say to Yang-Da?杨达说，你不得不把所有人的利益加起来Yang-Da says you just have to add up people's preferences而且我们也把少数派的利益也加进去and those in the minority do have their preferences weighed.你能举一个例子吗Can you give an example of the kind of thing当你说，你对功利主义的担心you're worried about when you say you're worried about utilitarianism因为忽略了对少数人的尊重？violating the concern or respect due the minority?举一个例子。And give an example.好吧。之前我们已经讨论过的案件，Okay. So, well, with any of the cases that we've talked about,例如，那个沉船的案件，那个被吃掉的男孩like for the shipwreck one, I think the boy who was eaten他和其他人有同等的活着的权利still had as much of a right to live as the other people只是因为他是少数派，and just because he was the minority in that case,他活下去的机会比其他人少了（他当时病了）the one who maybe had less of a chance to keep living,这并不意味着，其他人就能that doesn't mean that the others automatically有权吃他的肉，have a right to eat him just because it would give a让更大人生存下去。greater amount of people a chance to live.因此，也许少数派也有一定的权利，So there may be certain rights that the minority members have,不应该拿他们的个人利益，来换取多数人的利益that the individual has that shouldn't be traded off for the sake of utility?是。Yes.是的，Anna？下面将是对你的想法的一个检验。Yes, Anna? You know, this would be a test for you.早在古罗马，他们把基督徒丢在斗兽场Back in Ancient Rome, they threw Christians to the lions的狮子群里。in the Colosseum for sport.你觉得，功利主义会如何计算If you think how the utilitarian calculus would go,是的，基督教被抛进狮子群里，承受着巨大的痛苦yes, the Christian thrown to the lions suffers enormous excruciating pain.但看看罗马人的狂喜！But look at the collective ecstasy of the Romans!杨达。Yang-Da.那么，在那个年代..我不..如果在现代这个年代，Well, in that time, I don't -- if -- in modern day of time,给那些围观的人，所得到的快乐to value the -- to give a number to the happiness赋予一个价值，我不认为，given to the people watching, I don't think any, like,政策制定者会说，一个人的痛苦policymaker would say the pain of one person, of the suffering一个人会比，我的意思是，相比较而言of one person is much, much -- is, I mean, in comparison获得的快乐要多，也就是-to the happiness gained, it's -不，如果有足够多的罗马人No, but you have to admit that if there were enough Romans他们都开心发狂，它甚至会超过了delirious enough with happiness, it would outweigh even the这些被仍在狮子群里的基督徒所忍受的惨痛most excruciating pain of a handful of Christians thrown to the lion.因此，在这里，我们有两种不同的反对功利主义的意见。So we really have here two different objections to utilitarianism.其中一种，考虑到是否要充分尊重One has to do with whether utilitarianism adequately respects个人或少数人的权利，而另一个种意见individual rights or minority rights, and the other has to do with考虑到怎么把整体的利益加起来。the whole idea of aggregating utility or preferences or values.是否有可能，把所有利益加起来，换算成美元价值？Is it possible to aggregate all values to translate them into dollar terms?在20世纪30年代，有个心理学家There was, in the 1930s, a psychologist who tried试图解决第二个问题。to address this second question.他试图证明功利主义的假设He tried to prove what utilitarianism assumes,我们可以将所有商品、价值、人文关怀that it is possible to translate all goods, all values,转换成一个统一的度量all human concerns into a single uniform measure,他给那些领取救济的年轻人，做了个调查and he did this by conducting a survey of young recipients of relief,这是在20世纪30年代，他问这些年轻人，this was in the 1930s, and he asked them,他列了一个不愉快体验的清单，然后他问他们，he gave them a list of unpleasant experiences and he asked them,“付多少钱，你会愿意忍受这些体验？”"How much would you have to be paid to undergo the following experiences?"他一直跟踪调查。and he kept track.举例来说，你愿意付多少钱For example, how much would you have to be paid来拔掉你的一颗上门牙？to have one upper front tooth pulled out?或者，你愿意支付多少钱来换取你的一个小脚趾？Or how much would you have to be paid to have one little toe cut off?或者吞下一只6英寸长的活蚯蚓？Or to eat a live earthworm six inches long?或住在堪萨斯州的一个农场来度过你的余生？Or to live the rest of your life on a farm in Kansas?或者用亲手把一只流浪猫弄到窒息而死？Or to choke a stray cat to death with your bare hands?你猜这个清单上，最昂贵的是哪一条？Now, what do you suppose was the most expensive item on that list? - Kansas!堪萨斯？Kansas?是的，是堪萨斯州。You're right, it was Kansas.如果要他们选择住在堪萨斯州，别人要支付他们For Kansas, people said they'd have to pay them -30万美元。they have to be paid $300,000.你认为，接下来哪一条最贵？What do you think was the next most expensive?不是猫。Not the cat.也不是拔掉一颗牙。Not the tooth.不是切掉脚趾。Not the toe.是吞下蚯蚓！The worm!你得支付他们10万美元，他们才肯吞下蚯蚓People said you'd have to pay them $100,000 to eat the worm.你认为，哪条是最便宜？What do you think was the least expensive item?不是猫。Not the cat.是拔牙。The tooth.在大萧条时期，人们还是愿意During the Depression, people were willing to have their